• PLEASE LOG IN TO VIEW MORE CONTENT AND PARTICIPAITE

Guidance Uncured Pool Deck sealer Issue

nancyp

New member
Ok my wise little Cracker Coast people. I have an issue.

Here goes:

We hired someone to powerwash, paint the house, house and put a new coat of clean sealer on the pool deck. Well the issue we are having is with the pool deck.

Have no clue what he used but its sticky, after it rains it stays wet (puddles) for a long time. Like right now we all know it rained about 2ish well there are puddles still. He also did not do all the trim on the inside of the pool so some of the stuff rolled down the side, and you can see big HOLIDAYS on the deck where the guy didn't touch the spot at all.

He has Sherwood people here and told us its cause of the way the person who put the pool did it. HELLO YOU NUT WE HAD THE POOL A LONG TIME AND NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM.

Now I am going to have to hire someone to fix the mess (well hoping someone can). How do I get my money back from the 1st guy or I am screwed.

:bugout::yikes:
 

Little Dee

Sweet & Sassy
Re: Pool Issue

Did you check if he was licensed? He is a part of the better business bureau. Where is he located, maybe someone here knows him. If he has a website put a report on it about what he did to you. Now send a pm to VV and he may be able to help you out because this is a safety issue. Did you pay him by credit card? Dispute it if you did. Also with your bank, put in a dispute. If by check, put a stop on it. Dee
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

He is licensed. Located here in Palm Coast. I don't think he has a website. He was paid with a check and he cashed it already.

Oh forgot to mention my dog loves to chance the water when the filter goes on. Been doing this for years. Well now that we have the new SLICK finish she fall into the pool. Thank goodness my husband was able to get her out.
 

Little Dee

Sweet & Sassy
Re: Pool Issue

Whats the name of the company? If no other reason so no one here uses him. Bad publicity can hurt him. Have you called him to come back? Call code enforcement and report him.
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

He came back and the guy from SHerwood Williams came too. This last time he came he watned to try something do a little patch. my husband told him leave. So now its in my hands. I feel since the work was not done right we should get the money back for the pool deck.
DOn't want to say the name of the company yet. I will if he will not return the money.
 

VietnamVet

Army Cracker
Re: Pool Issue

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/porch/msg081901176065.html?13

I am thinking it was applied in two coats when only one was required. It is often that people overdo it. A person that does this for a living though should know better.

Some claiming to have a license do not. Here is the site to check for your self:
https://www.myfloridalicense.com/wl11.asp

In Flagler County they must be licensed as well.
Here is all the information you need to verify that.
http://www.flaglercounty.org/index.aspx?NID=236

Call the contractor when you have checked the information. If he is not licensed he will be real receptive to making this right I would bet. If he is licensed he should repair the problem immediately.

If he refuses, report him to the state and county licensing authorities. Go on Palm Coast Biz and do a rating review or warning to others about him.

Another thing you can do is call two or three other contractors and request an estimate to repair what has been done. At this point you will at least know what to do. It is very important you know what type and brand of product he used. Then it is off to small claims court. You can also file a lien on him until he pays you.
 

KathyInAR

Founder
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

NancyP, I am sorry you are having this problem...I know it must be frustrating. Good luck.
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

Thank you for all the great suggestions. I will be contacting the painter today after I look up to make sure he is licensed. I still do not want to say his name I want him to make right on this. If he has any respect for his business and himself he will do the right thing.
 

sundealer

Founder
Re: Pool Issue

How did the rest of the job turn out? Are you looking for ALL your money back or just a portion for the pool area?
 

ROOT

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

Do you have photos from before it was washed ? do the areas "missed" colaberate with mildew spots ?

There should be puddles on the surface like a waxed car if the sealer is doing its job and it will evaporate instead of absorbing into the porous unsealed concrete.

No excuses for sloppy work and the runs but it's true that different mixes or finishing in spots like varying the water in the mix or weather temp changes when finishing would effect the absorption and substantial repellent of water . and it may have never showed in the beginning as now ten years on the surface has eroded slightly from rain wearing it down and acids in the rain, particulates and mildew creates acid and may have a less dense and more permeable surface all of this will fade in a few months.
If the substrate is inconsistent in it's porosity it may be unfair to blame the applicator It may be imposable to see that before the sealer is put down and dries.
This is of course said without seeing it in person. You need to determine exactly what he used before we could consider remedies.
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

We do have pictures of before and now after. Never had a mildew problem.

Should the "puddles" last over 24 hrs after it gets wet. It was not like this before.

We have asked several times to what he used and can't get a straight answer. I will try and upload some pics of what it looks like now.
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

If that happens this man will be sorry. He will not even admit he has no idea why nor does Sherwood Williams person that came to my house.
Blaming it on everything else but the mistake that was made.
 

sundealer

Founder
Re: Pool Issue

Here's what I see happening in court. The judge will ask if you let him try to correct his mistake. NO. Did you have it redone? Yes. And that will be the only recovery you might get.

And like Root said, if it's truly sealed it should puddle up like water on the hood of a waxed car.
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

We had him try several times but if he doesn't know what is wrong how is he suppose to fix it. Court will be at the end of the list and not even sure I will go that way. Word of mouth is worse and if he is not licensed that will be damage enough for him.
Puddles yes but do puddles stay for over 24 hours. Never has so think we have an issue there.
This is one STICKY mess LOL
 

KathyInAR

Founder
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

Have you had anyone who has been able to advise you to what is the actual problem? Obviously something is wrong; however, I think you'd need to have someone who is an "expert" to determine what it is that is wrong and is causing the problem.
 

ROOT

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

Made me think of a line from this We bought a lot of things
to keep you warm and dry
And a funny old crib on which the paint won't dry

Is it possible he used a two part epoxy resin?
if it was old or not mixed proper it would remain sticky I am not sure what the solution would be other than to spray it with activator ????
 

ROOT

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

puddles for 24 hours would not be unusal if the water had no place to drain too and the humidity was so high it wouldn't evaporate . It sounds like you have a compound problem drainage that has been accentuated by the sealing and an improperly cures finish that is staing sticky.
 

Itchey

Googlemeister
Re: Pool Issue

Pretty Sure you meant he used Sherwin Williams Products on the deck and here is a page where some of these products may have been labels you saw while he was doing the job. I also am surprised that the paint rep will not say what the product used actually was....They should and without reservation if you tell them the problem you are having and they likely have a solution as well, wheter it be a product fault or applicator fault.

Here is a link to the page, and like Root I wonder if it is a 2 part epoxy paint?
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/shelf/interior-paint-coatings/masonry-concrete-products/protective-concrete-coatings-waterproofers/
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

You would think the Sherwood Williams person would know what the problem was. But no he was clueless too. If all these years we never had a problem until this new coating was put on.

Maybe it was old paint maybe it was the wrong paint whatever it was we need to know so we can figure out how to take care of the problem now.

Just put my first phone call into the painter. Of course nobody answered lol
 

Itchey

Googlemeister
Re: Pool Issue

Call Sherwin Williams direct at
1-800-524-5979
I'll bet that who showed up was a local paint store man who may not know exactly what happened, however going corporate will or should put you in touch with the experts who actually manufacture the chemicals used. I'm pretty sure that the Sherwin Williams stores are independent franchises so that may explain the hesitation on the guy's part who came out? I think going over their heads per say will result in a professional resolution to your problem. There are way to many variables to point out trying this or that....One thing though are you noticing any yellowing or like lines in areas of the new sealer? also is the new sealer supposed to be clear or a color and if it is a color is it dull in some areas and bright and glossy in others? The reason for asking is it may help identify what is used...The yellowing can be improperly mixed hardner and the dullness is called amine blush which is technical for improper mixing...

 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

Update: I contacted the painter yesterday he did give me the name of the paint. I called Sherwood Williams company today. The person I talked to was also very suprized the person from the store here didn't know what was wrong. The gentleman from teh company saids cause of the stickiness its was probably had too much sealer on it. He gave me the district manager name and number to call so we can figure out the next step.

Thanks eveyone for your help.
 

KathyInAR

Founder
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

This is getting interesting, please keep up informed and good luck with getting good results with your issues.
 

Mamabear

Well-known member
Re: Pool Issue

See if someone from a third party can look at it. Ron and I use to buy our paint from Palm Paint on Nova Road. Family owned and good people. See if they can send a person to look at it, tell you what you need, and maybe recommend another painter.
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

UPDATE: Stopped at Sherwilliams here in town and talked to the manager. He was great and offered a few suggestions and painters.
He thinks maybe the paint was old (painter had left over) and it was over applied. Suggested a strong power washing and reapplying the clear coat. I have to call 2 names he gave me.

The painter did say he would return the money we paid for the pool deck. His comment was "he will eat the cost of the product" Ok should we "eat it" not having the job done right?? Also he mentioned his wife was very upset when he used this product on his pool deck. Ok so you thought we where going to like it???? I will wait 10 days and I am hoping he does keep his promise about sending the money back. If not I will call again. As they say "3 strikes you are OUT" than I will post his name and company. Sorry bud but I am giving a chance to make this right!!!
 

R2D2

Cracker Droid
Re: Pool Issue

Just a thought but some of these products "cure" from ultraviolet light (the sun has it) and maybe it will just needs a little more curing time to fully cure or you could try helping it with a lamp fitted with a UV bulb.....but heck what do I know about painting, I'm just an electrician :yo:
 

nancyp

New member
Re: Pool Issue

(Is it possible he used a two part epoxy resin?
if it was old or not mixed proper it would remain sticky I am not sure what the solution would be other than to spray it with activator ????[/QUOTE]

Yes it seems it was probably old or not mixed right.

I am Happy to say WE RECIEVED A REFUND TODAY FOR THE DECK.

Now I am waiting for someone to come and let me know what to do to repair it. This company is one of the companies here in town that has been doing the decks and stuff like this for a long time. He said he would come yesterday or today SO FAR NO SHOW. Oh thats right I live in Palm COast where they work when they want to!!
 

ROOT

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

Not a job I would want , this is going to be labor intensive at best
SECTION FOUR

SOFT OR “GOOEY” COATING:
coatings that are soft (overall) or have random “gooey” spots,
after the expected or anticipated cure time has elapsed, are typically due to either incorrect
proportions (mix ratio) or improper mixing of components or careless measuring procedures.
A. ENTIRE SURFACE IS SOFT or HAS NOT CURED
: the catalyst or hardener was not added,
or was severely miss-proportioned when mixed.
1.
Obviously, two component materials require a catalyst or hardener in order to produce a
chemical reaction and reach a final cure. Improper measuring of the product’s ‘volume’
mix ratio can result in too much of either resin or hardener at the mix station, and will
result in an imbalance that will not allow the 2-components to react properly and final
cure will not occur - leaving an uncured / “Gooey” mess. Always verify the product
volume mix ratio before measuring any components and always use measuring
containers for proper proportions.
B. TACKY OR STICKY
SPOTS
(in an otherwise cured coating):
1.
The most common cause for tacky or sticky spots in a polymer floor / coating are
typically due to insufficient or improper mixing technique of resin and hardener.
2.
Another common cause can occur when adding either the resin or hardener
incorrectly, making the mix “Off Ratio”; where one of the components was not
measured correctly and blended out of proportion.
3.
Tacky or sticky spots may also occur when a mixing pail is placed upside down onto a
floor surface, allowing it to completely empty. In cases when unreacted resin (and/or
hardener) is not thoroughly blended and is unintentionally allowed to collect on the
inside of the pail; this unmixed material can get poured out and create a soft or tacky
spot.
REPAIR METHODS:
A.
If floor entire surface is “gooey” (uncured), and determined that one of the components was
not added and/or was improperly measured or mixed – all of the unreacted resin or hardener
must be thoroughly and completely removed / scraped off the surface using long-handled
drywall scraper knives or a “Scrape-Away” tool on a rotary scrubber to remove all of the
uncured coating.

B.
Follow the removal of the “gooey” / uncured epoxy with a strong safety solvent to wipe and
clean the surface.

CAUTION : While the solvent is on the surface DO NOT use any tools
or equipment with electric motors that are not designated as “spark proof” electrical
motors, as many solvents are highly flammable / combustible and it is possible that a
‘spark’ from standard electric motor could cause the solvent to ignite.
C.
Dispose of the uncured epoxy and solvent residue in product containers and discard in
accordance with federal, state, and local regulations.
D.
If uncured coating is only tacky or sticky in spots, identify all locations and mark them. Hand
grind, scrape and/or sand each individual spot and solvent clean as above; fill or patch each
spot if necessary to bring to ‘level’ and apply the coating on the spots. Remember that
patches will never blend in and, therefore, it may be NECESSARY to completely recoat the
entire floor.
 

Attachments

ROOT

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

Looks like that's for indoor floors and walls. Doesn't say how to avoid sun, rain and wind.
Do you have any suggestions on how to do that, which could fit in a paragraph and be idiot proof? Just like pouring concrete or laying bricks you watch the weather and be prepared with cover.
and besides It does say how to deal with those less than ideal situation if you read the entire document.

It does imply that the sticky areas will cure eventually .

If it were me, I would try mixing a fresh batch of a similar formulation and apply it over the dry sticky parts in hope the curing agent from the fresh batch would activate the old surface .

We are still uncertain as to what caused it to not set . there is a possibility that the surface in those areas had not dried adequately after he pressure washed. Especially knowing they are consistent with were water stands now and may be low spots.

Give me a good ole natural finish like brick or stone. regardless of claims I don't think plastics (resin finish) are appropriate outdoors .
 

ROOT

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

Again on a textured surface this is going to be a mess, your applicator owes you more than a refund,!

He should have to do the labor to clean up his mistake or pay for it regardless.

IN fact his liability insurance should cover it ! It will certainly cost a lot more than the initial job did.

I know the policy I carried for years would cover stuff like this even though I never made a claim (other than one $260.00 bill my Secretary filed for a cut telephone line which I personally felt was not our fault as it was only 4 inches deep)

Once again this proves that a city/county business license (tax certificate) does absolutely zilch to protect you from inexperience, idiots or accidents. Call them and ask what sort of assurance they really offer.

No municipality serves to qualify a person for a job, they ask for nothing but money and hand you a piece of paper.
Only state certifications offer assurance that the individual has some knowledge of his trade and even then there are individuals who have got them by nefarious means. Such as one infamous "irrigation guy" with Iron stains on his own fence, who once frequented this forum and screamed about the law while his certificate of apprenticeship needed to obtain a irrigation contractor license was signed off fraudulently .

I feel bad for this young man as you do, but he should have been a stand up guy and found a solution other than returning your money.

Character and Ethics is what you seek in a contractor, One who wouldn't allow this sort of smear on his name.

You have been very nice to not mention his name, but by allowing him to get out from under this with a refund is a disservice to him and the community IMO.
 

ROOT

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Pool Issue

The solvents you will need to clean this up are all kinds of nasty to use.
In order of effectiveness


  1. Methylene Chloride (dichloromethane)
  2. Methyl ethyl ketone MEK (Butanone)
  3. Xylene
  4. lacquer thinner
  5. denatured alcohol

I would look into using an explosion proof solvent recovery vacuum that could suck up the solvent after it has been scrubbed in and dissolved the uncured resin. something like a carpet cleaner machine that uses dry cleaning solvents
You might find a contractor that does this by looking to this Florida company and inquiring to their customers.

http://www.tiger-vac.com/product-line/explosion-proof/fuel-solvent-rec.html

either way the real difficulty is in recovering the solvent after it has dissolved the resin, by either absorption or suction. If any is left to evaporate it will leave the resin it dissolved when it dissipates.
A sophisticated system would distil and reuse the solvent. I am unsure if there is enough of a market to support this sort of machine but on a larger scale it would be the most practical method. other than grinding off the cool coat and resurfacing.
 

Itchey

Googlemeister
Re: Pool Issue

If the surface is still soft, I would try in all honestly a Pressure Washer with a wobbler nozzle. Mechanical removal usually ends up with less "side effects" than a barrage of chemicals and then dealing with the resulting goo. I would use a chemical stripper only as a very last resort, and then there are some very special products that deal with amine based substances which you are dealing with.

If you do need a solvent then Sherwin Williams or rather who ever furnished the paint/coating used can describe the best product to use to clean it up.
If you have to guess, I've had decent success with this product, but just like Root stated, the cleanup is likely going to be more labor intensive than the origianl paint and material was... Good Luck.
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/6961142665012096185?q=epoxy+cleaner+and+solvent&client=firefox-a&hs=LPH&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.69837884,d.aWw,pv.xjs.s.en_US.pCEWq08PD0c.O&biw=1421&bih=745&tch=1&ech=1&psi=E6-tU9DrL8aoyAT554GwCg.1403891476952.5&ei=la-tU63QBoy1yAS5wIDwCw&ved=0CIICEKYrMAs4FA
 
Top